Bungi Bill

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Posts by Bungi Bill

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  42

  Was there anything different about you that helped you escape the WT?

  by Giordano in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for me i know it was because i was a reader.. i began reading books at the age of 13, this was in the 1950's.

  because there were some serious family problems i had two escapes i could count on reading and associating with my friends at the kingdom hall.. as i devoured steinbeck, hemingway, wolf etc.

  my world view expanded....it had to.

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  Bungi Bill

  Ironically, it was my being an avid reader that first drew me to the Witnesses. Later, though, when doubts began to develop, it was reading that helped draw me away - as in the case of Giordano.

  This was prior to the Internet, so very little was available - even in the public libraries. Fortunately, the job I had involved a considerable amount of travelling. Wherever I went, I always made a point of checking out the public library, and reading anything they had on Jehovahs Witnesses.

  No that there was a lot!

  - Schnell's 30 Years a Watchtower Slave. Hardly an unbiased work, but the author was highly disgusted with the WTS, and took no pains to conceal that fact!

  - Stevenson's 1975 -Year of Doom? was a revealing work, written by somebody who had served at all levels up to "Circuit Servant" - and whose perspective was greatly altered once he was able to view "the organisation" from the outside.

  - Penton's Apocalypse Postponed was another informative read.

  (At that stage, I had never heard of Raymond Franz's Crisis of Conscience).

  Apart from being an avid reader, the only other characteristic that may have helped is my stubborn streak that comes out when I feel I have been unfairly treated, messed around - or just generally been taken for a ride!

  Bill.
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  41

  Opinion-Is This Clear Evidence that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is with The Watchtower?

  by DavinciCodeBreaker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was having a discussion with an aquaintance about if there was evidence that the watchtower has jehovah's holy spirit.

  he said, "given the fact that no other organization has won more supreme court cases than jehovah's witnesses to protect their religious freedom in north america and abroad is unrefutable evidence of jehovah's blessing by means of his holy spirit".. your thoughts?.

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  Bungi Bill

  To start with, have the JWs really won more court cases than anybody else? (Whether in the USA or elsewhere). If indeed they have, then the Exclusive Bretheren would have to be close on their heels.

  In earlier times, the legal system was not an avenue that was available to establish religious freedom with. Rather, during the Reformation in Europe, people had to win religious freedom by force of arms. And, typically, they attributed each military victory to their having the backing of God's Holy Spirit! (They also used that to justify their torturing to death of prisoners afterwards, too - but that is another story).

  One such example of many was the Battle of Dunkeld, in Scotland in 1689. There, the Covenanters barricaded themselves into the cathederal, sang psalms, and fought off a vigorous attack by the Highland Army, which was still flush with their victory in the Pass of Killiecrankie. Of course, the successful outcome of the battle was all to do with God's holy spirit - and nothing at all to do with the fact that Highland leadership had by then collapsed!

  Even in the case of the JWs, the court system acheived no success for them against Nazi Germany. In Europe, their freedom to practice their religion was likewise acheived by force of arms:

  - only in the case of the Witnesses, it was somebody else who had to do their dirty work for them.

  I would put their courtroom successes - where these have occurred - down to the fact that legal action was available to them. Otherwise, their claims of "success being evidence of God's spirit" are no different to those of any other religious group.

  Bill.
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  15

  Space Shuttle, NASA, and The NAZI SS.

  by pedal power in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  todays last landing of the space shuttle atlantis, and the ending and retirement of the space shuttle fleet,signals the end of an era in manned space flight in the usa.. i feel obliged to bring to your attention, the man who put the the usa at the forfront of the space race, and put the first man on the moon, and was the brains and driving force of nasa, that would result ultimately in the shuttle programme, the construction of the space station, and the hubble telescope.. who was he, and what was his background ?

  well his name was wernher von braum, he was a german soldier, scientist, who attained the rank of sturbannfuher in the ss, he was one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in the nazi regime, developing the v2 weapon, the first icbm.. he and his team of german scientists, were captured near the end of ww2 and taken to the usa, there they escaped the war trials, and von braun, the former nazi officer, was put in charge of the space programme, set up by president kennedy, he and his team of former nazi scientists designed and built the saturn v rocket which took men to the moon in july 1969, i was 7yo, my father insisted on wakening me up, to view the looner landing, i am glad he did, and now 42 years later its over, and some of our thanks, if not all must go to,wernher von braun, german ss officer..

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  Bungi Bill

  That one researcher makes a major break-through (in this case, Goddard's liquid fuelled rocket engine) - then somebody else vastly improves on it - is nothing unique.

  The fact is that, by 1940, only Germany and the Soviet Union had carried out any proper Research and Development work with rockets;

  - the Red Army using these extensively in lieu of artillery, with the thinking being that rocket launching equipment did not have to be robustly constructed, as there was no recoil to absorb. Some of this weaponry proved to be extremely effective, particularly the multi-barreled launcher known as the "Stalin Organ."

  - however, during those years, Germany was streets ahead of everybody else in R&D with rockets.

  As pedal power correctly observes, the success of the United States space program was almost entirely dependent on Von Braun and his associates.

  Bill.
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  61

  How Many on JWNet are still JWs?

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been wondering about this for some time.

  if there are 60,000+ registered users on here, what percentage are actual non-dfed or non-daed witnesses?

  if it was 1/3, that would be over 20,000 active/inactive witnesses that post and read these pages- and that's huge.

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  Bungi Bill

  Although I have been well and truly out for along time now, I can still relate to those JWs who are presently "lurking" on sites such as this. Harboring secret doubts after the failure of WTS prophecy ref. 1975, I began my exit in the days before the Internet; but read everything about the JWs that I could find in any public library I that entered:

  - principallySchnell's 30 Years a Watchtower Slave, Stevenson's 1975 - Year of Doom?, and Penton's Apocalypse Postponed.

  As many (perhaps the majority?) here would have discovered, to know is one thing, to act on ones knowledge is entirely another matter. It is not always that simple to make the break, particularly if family is involved. In my case, finally making the move did end up costing me my family.

  Probably as a legacy of those years leading up to my exit, I still have nightmares in which I have broken with the JWs, but am still receiving assignment forms to do talks on the Ministry School!

  Bill
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  47

  "Drugs are demonic, mmmmkay?"

  by Mr. Falcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i hope everyone is having a wonderful summer filled with district conventions and auxillary pioneering.

  just kidding, let's talk drugs.. as a kid growing up in the mid-80's and through the 90's, we had all kinds of lame, pointless anti-drug programs at school.

  the most common one was the d.a.r.e.

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  Bungi Bill

  As well as some dictionary's rendering of the Greek word "pharmakia", much was made of drug usage in spiritistic rites:

  - in parts of South East Asia and Papua New Guinea, betel nut was chewed as a signal to "The Demons" that people wished to make communication.

  - likewise, Amerindian people used to smoke tobacco as a signal to open communication with the "other side."

  Then, whammo! Back about 1972, tobacco smoking now gets moved from off the merely frowned upon list, and onto the forbidden list.

  (Enough to make you want to tie bunches of garlic around your bed to keep them at bay - or does that only protect against vampires?)

  Bill.
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  30

  JWs always deny the information control

  by AuntBee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an active witness on fb just told me that they are taught to "always question what we are taught" and use not only the wt publications, but any research materials, and come to a conclusion about what they find!

  this is not what i've heard from you guys!

  does she go to some unusual-type kingdom hall, or is she mesing with my mind?.

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  Bungi Bill

  To their list of forbidden literature could be added Schnell's 30 Years a Watchtower Slave.

  They would definitely fly into a panic if they knew you had been reading that!

  Bill.
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  16

  JW's And The Abuse Of Children...

  by shel54401 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  through out my 10yrs.

  of being involved w/ the organization i have witnessed a many pyhsical abuse.and i even have been to a many different halls, in which i saw the same abuse on children.the last thing that had made me leave was a case of childabuse, in which no elders nor any one did anything to help these poor children, so i reported them and the children were taken from the home that day, the husband went to jail then prision for a probation violation by hurting the children.the little one of age 5 was punched in the face, then kicked down a flight of stairs..this was it for me, after reporting this, i left the organization and never looked back..how sad, when people just stood by and watched this happen, even an elder's wife, and no one did anything to help these poor children.and the beatings i witnessed in the bathrooms was just awful.after my research of this dangerous cult, and then the beatings of the children was enough for me to take my 5 year old daughter and myself out of this dangerous organization and never look back.

  yes, we lost a many frineds, but i still keep in contact w/ some of my jw"s friends who sneek over at times to visit me..i sure pray that god will helo them escape this dangerous organization before its too late..

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  Bungi Bill

  The simple truth of the matter is that the JWs are not a family friendly religion, and the widespread use of corporal punishment is just one aspect of this:

  - an aspect which the Bible itself has a lot to answer for. However apologists might like to try and reword matters, scriptures that talk about "beating with the rod of discipline" can only mean one thing - and will only be interpreted one way.

  It is a tall order to expect an adult to sit quietly through two hours of a boring, mind-numbning, sould-destroying JW "meeting." Yet the JWs expect infants to endure such, without making a sound. Then, if the child does complain, common practice is to administer a beating. Not even animals treat their young in such a manner!

  Bill.
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  48

  Have Jehovah's Witnesses (The WTBTS) taken the Best Years of your life?

  by Hairyhegoat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  having been a born in for 44 years i can say yes to this question.

  my 2 sisters and 1 brother and my dad have nothing to do with my family now we have made our stand against the jw's.

  i was always downtrodden at school for been a jw.

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  Bungi Bill

  Unhesitatingly, yes, the #$%^*s did!

  For sure, you always try to make the best of what you have left to work with. That, however, is never going to regain what was thrown away - and I see little use in trying to kid yourself otherwise.

  Bill.
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  492

  607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

  by Witness My Fury in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.

  using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.

  do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?

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  Bungi Bill

  We will likely hear more on this matter tomorrow night, when the full moon is out!

  Bill
• 
  61

  What made you leave "The Truth"?

  by Chemical Emotions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for me it was many things.

  most concerned certain teachings that invloved genders, children, sex, sexuality and sexual orientations, disfellowshipping, apostates, blood, rape, and few other things, as well as the jw's unloving attitude toward so many people..

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  Bungi Bill

  It was a feeling of more and more being placed in a position of having to defend that which was indefensible:

  - Failure of prophecy (as it turned out, not just once, but repeatedly)

  - Closely linked to that, chronology that was conjectured.

  - Flip Flop doctrinal changes, excused as being "New Light" (by misapplication of a certain Bible text).

  - Then, the attempting to rewrite their own history to cover it all up!

  - Also, the absence of what Christ said would identify his true followers, i.e. love.

  Certainly, there are good people amongst the JWs, but no more than amongst the population in general - whereas they would have you believe that JWs alone have the monopoly on this. For me, the wake up call was working at the same place as another "brother." In many ways, he was worse than the so-called "worldly" people on the staff - a point picked up on by the "worldlies" themselves!

  If not at any other time, you or your family will discover this lack of love if you ever get into trouble. For us, it all fell back on our "worldly" family to assist when my wife became chronically ill. (The congregation accused us of trying to "use" people.)

  The hard pill to swallow at the time was that I actually knew better people before I got involved with the JWs.

  Bill.